Curse

Mitchel · Dec 20, 2007, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Fellow

Morostav Trail - has 1 gigantic warden mob with 1 or 2 bosses.

Yeah, I have to agree with that, Warmaker was the last mob to kill for the Vanquish but they kept wiping me with their 2 Warden of Seasons. Also I think some areas are hard because the skills used by Hench are retarded (hint,hint)

The Meth · Dec 20, 2007, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Guardian Tyria: Mursaat and Titans were rather a letdown. I didn't find the 4 or 6 man missions unusually hard contrary to what a lot of people say. Even Rurik didn't give me any troubles, maybe I'm lucky with that. Oddly enough I would say it was the maguuma missions that were hardest this time around.

Guardian Cantha: Timed missions are still very easy to get masters on as long as you don't decide to take a lunch break. Eternal Grove masters is an absolute hell with h/h, but nothing else it really over the top. The trick with Gyala is to only use one of the smoke cans so that all 3 turtles fire on the same spot, so you can wipe one side while your party holds off the other. If anything the fact that the baby turtles were lvl 20 and therefore not singled out as much made it easier.

Guardian Elona: Was the easiest for me, though that might be because it was the most recently done for me any all the enemies and skills were fresh in my mind when HM came out. Dzagonur was hard h/h so I needed another person, not realizing that you only needed to save 5 out of 6 (ie you could let one die and have the boss move down).

EotN Missions: Too easy, can't remember any challenge at all. Of course thats after I finished the other 3 campaigns so I was well practiced, so for a first timer it would probably be decently hard.

Vanquishing Tyria: A few random vanquished areas were hard with a 6 or 4 person party, nothing that took more then 2 tries h/h.

Vanquishing Cantha: I thought cantha was pretty well balanced across the board in HM. Jades, wardens, afflicted are all well balanced groups that can be defeated through sound tactics. Tannakai temple is a PITA to vanquish because the AI likes to screw up along that spiral stairway area.

Vanquishing Elona: I think half the challenge is not committing suicide after staring at the desolation for an hour lol. Kournans got rather annoying with their powerful monks and eles. It wasn't too bad overall though.

Vanquishing EotN: Only seriously difficult mobs were those charr. Their build is just so well made. Considering that AFAIK HM enemies always get 19-20 attribute in everything, the charr are able to make incredible use of their secondary profession. E/Mos up a constant aegis and removing conditions with extinguish, their necros using Guided weapon to ignore your own block, rangers who seem to be able to spike nearly anything to death instantly, it gets quite hectic. And if you manage to kill one, good luck stopping 3 half-cast resses that activate asap without frozen soil. Haven't tried it since the magebane buff, that could probably have countered those casters well.

Absolute HARDEST THING TO DO IN GUILDWARS!:
Pug anything. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/An_Au...th_Master_Togo <- pugs could find a way to fail at this. Starting from the monastary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

snip

Every single thing you list has rather simple counters, except possibly those stupid storm cloud incubuses who had a quadruple group spawn ontop of a res shrine in bloodstone caves, wiped you before you know they spawned and then spawn camped you on the res shrine. Thankfully that was a bug and was fixed lol. The fact that you are even mentioning an obsidian flesh tank speaks rather poorly of your tactics and shows you aren't playing effectivly

darkdreamr · Dec 20, 2007, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Yep, Charr are probably the most frightening enemies in GWEN because of their great teambuild. Those necros cast Guided weapon on the rangers, who have Conjure flame and Kindle arrows. They also have spirits. Fire eles with high prot magic casting Aegis and Extinguish in between nukes, two different kinds of healers, and the mesmers doing shutdown and interrupt with a hard FC res if you kill something.

Vanquishing the Charr lands has taken me more time than the rest of GWEN because of this. They're also in Rragar's Menagerie. Haven't been able to solo that HM. The dinosaurs are annoying, particularly the Ceratodons, but with some ench removal and no death penalty they're not too bad. Overall I was very impressed and challenged (in a good way) by the teambuilds in gwen, from the Simians to the Hylek/Agari, it's very effective.

Dungeonwise, I have to agree with the comment about bosses being too hard to be fun. Granted I usually play by myself or with 1 other person, but after getting through an entire dungeon no problem, I usually wipe several times trying to kill the boss. Fendi Nin comes to mind, but the same is true for many of them. Maybe this is just an effort to get people to group up more. If so..good job >_>

Outside GWEN, truly challenging situations are few and far between. Yes the Jade Brotherhood has some nice synergy, but they're not too dangerous. And there are places in HM where there are too many enemies, like 8 inferno imps (massive Rodgort spike) or 8 Bog Scale/Ice Tooth Blighters which is hell in Twin Serpent Lakes. But I managed everything on my mesmer h/h with the occasional help of a couple alliance-mates.

Outside GWEN I would say the hardest thing is Rotscale in HM. You have to bring very specific skills to counter him, and that was hard to do with h/h. Took me maybe 5-6 tries and lots of consumables/money spent at the statue.

Vinraith · Dec 20, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

In GW:En you get nearly nothing done without playing this group build:

1 obsi Tank
1-2 Splitter Barrager
1 SS Necro
2-3 SF Eles or SH Eles
2 Monks..one as Bonder for the Tank and 1 Group Healer with Healers Boon and Heal Party.

You badly need to rethink your group builds, and no I'm not talking about Ursan. The game's not nearly as hard as you're making it by refusing to think outside the cookie cutter build box. This game is about adapting your team to the situation, not complaining to get an area nerfed until you can run whatever you want and succeed anyway.

Miss Puddles · Dec 20, 2007, 05:30 PM // 17:30

prophecies:
dreadnought's drift - soooo many stone summit + pop ups + dolyaks galore = >_<

factions:
the zone outside harvest temple, can't think of the name. all the patrols and dragons just make for suckage.

nightfall:
joko's domain - hate...undead...so much....

eotn:
any zone with an abundance of jotun >_>

holix · Dec 20, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Guys I vanqed all eotn areas with h\h! me as ele( earth KD or blind + epidemic own vs raptors) + 3sab necros + 2monks+ earth ele + optional hench (often cynn) GL^^

holix · Dec 20, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

BTW I'm at 987 Legendary Master of the North title. I can't do Vloxen or Rragar's dungeon in HM they are really hard and it's a prob to find good grp.. fix it plz^^

Painbringer · Dec 20, 2007, 06:10 PM // 18:10

I am posting a few more now that I have some time to think about it.

When I first started and I am sure to anyone out there that does not use Wiki. One of the hardest parts for me was bonus portion to The Frost Gate (Mission). I quote from Wiki

Beware of two groups of Stone Summit there; if they are together, they will pose a significant challenge, especially with several Dolyak Riders healing each other and the Summit.

How many countless attempts I tired before I knew Wiki existed…… Wasted time an energy………. Never to succeed at the low level you are when you get to this mission. Finally after multiple attempts I skipped it and returned later at lvl 20 and finished it.

GWEN – Shards of Orr-You made me a better player thank you.

Tamuril elansar · Dec 20, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

joko's domain HM.

Chthon · Dec 20, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

I'd say there's 4 things that annoy me more than any others:

1. Mobs the exploit the stupidity of H+H.

Usually, but not always, this is about the H+H clumping up and staying in AoE. Prophecies ice imps are a classic example. Forgewight's dungeon is pretty much the same thing over again. The eles and necros in shards of orr go in this list too. These areas aren't that bad with decent human teams (when they can be found), but trying to do them on your own is very frustrating. After going to all the work of giving us henchmen, why go and make monsters that the hench can't deal with?

Allied NPC's are another issue here. Any mission with Prince Rurick in HM is a good example. It's no fun at all to fail over and over because of a mandatory NPC's stupidity. Moreover, Rurick charging mindlessly ahead takes away any opportunity to approach the missions with intelligent tactics and reduces them to exercises in build-design and prayer. Fortunately, from the looks of EotN, I think the devs finally figured this one out a little.

2. Over-buffed Mobs.

Mobs with super stats are no fun to fight. I don't enjoy getting "wtfpwned" by a monster that does 300+ damage per hit; and I don't enjoy being forced into a very small number of options -- PS, obsidian tank, ursan, SY/TNtF spammer, seed bonder -- to have any hope of surviving more than 3 sec. There's no rewarding challenge to it; it's all "dumb" difficulty. On a more basic level, it just feels like the monsters are cheating. DoA and most of hard mode are the worst examples of this. This has been called "lazy design" in the past, and I pretty much have to agree.

3. Super-healing mobs

This is almost a sub-category of #2. Mobs with multiple healers using very-high-spec skills can be very frustrating, particularly when they are hard to shut down thanks to hex/condition removal and/or the HM cast speed bonus. Multi-dolyak HM mobs are an example. Shutting them down at all is a pain, and it forces you into a particular party formation to do it.

(I think a larger general trend is that I don't like "challenges" that force your party-building decisions too much.)

4. Cheesy Environmental Effects

I don't like them. They feel "cheap" and "unfair."

5. Long Missions

For areas like the Deep, Urgoz, DoA, etc. often the biggest challenge is getting a party together with the free time to finish it. Losing people because they ran short of time, and "Afk 45 min for dinner" are intensely frustrating, especially if you've doing well at the mission.

Hamanaqua · Dec 21, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiragi Yagami

i tried destruction's depths in HM and got my ass wrapped, signed, stamped, and mailed to me by the disk of chaos. otherwise, not terribly hard in HM, but the final boss is BEASTLY. especially for me, playing a ranger -.-

Um, yah, WHY do we need a HM in some of these places again?

Seriously? Frostmaw Dungeon north of Sifhalla. Friggin Wurm Bile and knock down and those dropping out of the ceiling bat thingys. I've gone into that dungeon numerous times with good players and we just get whacked. I have yet to try it with a full live party with a rockin' monk and rockin' mes (which is what I think it would take).

I have templates just for that dungeon.

I hear that Torment in NF is really tough too.

As far as TOO hard (for our Arena Net watcher); well there is ALWAYS a solution. I tried HoS once and got creamed; tried it again with a good group and owned it. The trouble is, say with Frostmaw (Master's Quest) is that if the solution is finding the right group of live players than you could waste WAY to much time on it. Just the time it would take to form the right party could take over an hour.

Be nice if the spawn was different for H/H versus a live party so players could do it on their own.

Hamanaqua · Dec 21, 2007, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by holababe

Also, Old Ascalon because of the 4-man party size

I assume you are referring to doing missions in hard mode?

pakhavit · Dec 21, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamuril elansar

joko's domain HM.

omg it's so hard, 2 hour boring henching

: 3-4months ago no gwen skill

Almost Every area in hard mode can be hench sooo soooo easy, learn how to control, flag hero or click skill for them.

The hardest for me is probably Super-healing mob 2 grawl healer in 4man party or 2 whitemantle priest or 2 summit healer -__-

no matter how strong they are, as long as you can barely kill them 1 at the time, you still can rez at shirne and come back ^^
but if they have a crazy heal and you can't kill = gg /resign

3 Sor toad + 2 war shout = overpower heal, Dinosure + raptor is a lot easier

And Try henching it first ! stop finding a group, henching with imporve your skill a lot more than team group

Learn how the thing work,

1. Know the boss on the map and try to test-kill the hard boss first.
( you don't wanna give up on last group after you vanquish whole area. try kill them first)

2. Get in the map fight with a different kind of class mod ( ex. plant group, toad group,kournan group)
if you can win 1 group, it's mean you beat the rest already

3. changing skill for a certain enemy (ex. Whitemantle priest , myself use rend touch my necro have rip-en+rend enchant,
or Jotun have kd and Massive damage, Ward stability + Sod)

:bad grammar and spelling sorry :X

Midknight · Dec 21, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

I gotta say HM Urgoz was the hardest thing I've done.
Spellbreaker/Ob Flesh + bonds + stances and our warrior still died at least 30 times in the mission.
Thorn Wolves are really weird on their aggro and took off after our monks several times (our summon Mursaat distracted him for a second or two)
The trees with varying area effects just add the difficulty

It took us 4 hours, but it was a lot of fun. It was really worth the Req. 13 straw effigy and junk I got out of the chest...

pumpkin pie · Dec 24, 2007, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Shards of Orr Level 2 - Lost Souls Quest in Normal Mode is already making me go crazy.

What the....

5 wizards 6 brutes 2 necros a cleric and a priest... how do you get pass that. before that, its like hundreds of enchanted axe... and before that.... GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I guess that is why, (force to make a trip to wiki bleh) no one has seen the Soul of Fendi Nin and live to tell the tale!

or has there, please tell me how to ...

traiur · Dec 24, 2007, 09:03 PM // 21:03

The Hardest area for me by far is fighting south from Beacon's Perch. It practically requires at least one other human player (henchies at the perch just don't cut it) and requires a series of forays or some research on the area in order to create your group. Not only this but you have to balance your team correctly and have support skills on almost every person in the party. A friend and I did this before consumables arose and I really think this was the most challenging areas in GW. Heck we only managed to get past dreadnaughts' drift by protting up and just trying to shove our way around the right side to pull the group away from the rez shrine and the other patrol. Brilliant area that is alot of fun even as you pull your hair out.

I also like it more than most of the other hard areas because its quite doable with a balanced group. it pushes skill to the limit. I would like to see some better rewards for areas like this although I can see that being rather dificult to implement.

Solus Spartan · Dec 24, 2007, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Realm of Torment HM.

I never knew whirling defense could cause so much maythem.

Jaceb · Dec 24, 2007, 10:40 PM // 22:40

I remember when NF was still something new and i set my foot on some Realm of Torment areas on NM mind you (HM wasn't in yet). Gate of Pain or the other tightly packed zones. :P. oh man, it was a very violent way to go. After you learn the tricks, it's not so bad unless you get tons of copies in HM then it gets just silly. If you had to vanquish those areas for the title that'd be fun actually.

Any area that has huge mobs patrolling with shared paths with their own healers that join the fight. If it goes really well you'll wipe and then they gank you at the shrine until you give up :P. Barbarous Shores HM (corsairs), that can happen very easily there and most likely you will pull two bosses too..

Charr areas on Eotn are the toughest though because of their balanced builds, in HM they're really nasty but for the unprepared the assassin raptors on asura lands can be quite a handfull.

Made In Ascalon · Dec 25, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

Shards of Orr Level 2 - Lost Souls Quest in Normal Mode is already making me go crazy.

What the....

5 wizards 6 brutes 2 necros a cleric and a priest... how do you get pass that. before that, its like hundreds of enchanted axe... and before that.... GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I guess that is why, (force to make a trip to wiki bleh) no one has seen the Soul of Fendi Nin and live to tell the tale!

or has there, please tell me how to ...

Shards of Orr really isn't that hard until you get to Fendi. I just tried doing it for the first time tonight in NM, I tanked as a rit using VwK + ele armor enchants + hero monk using Shield of Judgement. Since they have absolutely no enchantment removal, they usually got wtfpwned.

And then Fendi destroyed my team. Once I messed up once and got my party DP'd up, there was no way I could beat him.

A11Eur0 · Dec 25, 2007, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Interesting thread. In fact, it's really useful to the designers.

Could you include some notes about what makes the area/quest/mission difficult, and whether you think it's too difficult, or just nicely challenging?

Anywhere in the Desolation with undead groups with 2 acolytes and 2 cavaliers. Factor in Quicksand energy drain from the giants (signet of return, with huge mobs, no energy required and full health when rezzed...yeah). Kill the acolytes first and the cavaliers rez them. Don't go after the acolytes, go for the the cavaliers instead, the acolytes heal them while the warriors pick your back line apart, then rez them because it doesn't seem like quicksand does much to them.

Solvable with multiple humans, but the way the game is designed noone plays with other people anymore...henchies/heroes just don't cut it.

Shards: super spiking conditions, KD, and AoE. Get to the end, Fendi with his armor ignoring 200+ Feast of corruption. prot spirit...laf. bonds...laf.